Tantei Opera Milky Holmes Summer Special out!!

Tantei Opera Milky Holmes Summer Special out!!
And it’s out! Sorry for the wait guys, school starting is stalling everything up the ass. Enjoy the songs, especially the awesome new ED! Encoder testing out 10bit for this episode, let us know how you like it and if there are any problems. As always brought to you by us and KiteSeekers. Those who want the two new songs in full can get them here.A good site on 10-bit encoding and playback: (Click)

Information on why the 10bit is bigger than the 8bit

[KiteSeekers-Wasurenai] Tantei Opera Milky Holmes – OVA [1280×720 H264 OGG] [0CB98EEA].mkv
Fileserve | Torrent

[KiteSeekers-Wasurenai] Tantei Opera Milky Holmes – OVA [Hi10P 1280×720 H264 OGG] [C87F87DC].mkv
Fileserve | Torrent

[KiteSeekers-Wasurenai] Tantei Opera Milky Holmes – OVA [704×400 XviD] [0FB75555].avi
Fileserve | Torrent

The timeline of this OVA is still on debate. It definitely takes place after episode 4, and there is a flashback reference that suggests it takes place after episode 11 (and therefore after 12 as well), yet the next episode preview places the episode before episode 8. But though she was definitely gone for episode 5, she was already alive and raging by episode 6. Huh. *scratches head*

Typesetting was a bitch, kudos to Langes01x for pulling out all the stops. Also, as if the main series wasn’t bad enough, there are a crapload more TL notes and references to external media than ever before. I’ve released the ones that I deemed important enough, ones that the viewer would otherwise find confusing or not so obvious without. Other less important ones I’ve left commented in the script – for those interested in those references, you may demux the script, or read them below and reference the timecodes. Note that this list is incomplete; I’ve only put in references that coincide with actual dialogue or typesetted signs, not certain scenes and situations. For the complete list, you can see for yourself from the reference gods at Atwiki (Japanese).

Comment: 1,0:04:37.27,0:04:37.41,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Hidden Note: Sugiyama Hiroyuki is a member of {\i1}Wagaya.{\i0}
Comment: 1,0:04:37.42,0:04:38.96,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Reference to the Japanese comedian group {\i1}Wagaya{\i0};  \N”Oh no you don’t!” (in Japanese) is one of their most well-known lines.
Comment: 1,0:06:03.72,0:06:05.16,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: A reference to the anime {\i1}Tenjou Tenge{\i0} (“The Heaven and the Earth”).
Comment: 1,0:08:27.36,0:08:34.28,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Parody of 1973 Japanese idol group {\i1}Candies{\i0}’ famous breakup line “We want to return to being ordinary girls.”
Comment: 1,0:10:01.16,0:10:04.93,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This refers to the idol magazine of the same name.
Comment: 1,0:10:04.93,0:10:07.37,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This line refers to a front page cover of an issue of the informational magazine {\i1}The Television{\i0}, but the person is holding a {\i1}lemon{\i0} instead.
Comment: 1,0:10:07.37,0:10:10.71,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This refers to the broadcasting, restaurant, and observation tower {\i1}Sky Tree{\i0}, which is actually located in Tokyo, not in Yokohama.
Comment: 1,0:10:25.45,0:10:28.22,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This is one of the lines from the anime {\i1}Cardfight!! Vanguard.{\i0}
Comment: 1,0:11:06.58,0:11:18.11,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Sherlock’s dialogue in this scene is a parody of one of the scenes in {\i1}Doraemon.{\i0}
Comment: 1,0:13:35.96,0:13:38.99,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This refers to Noguchi Ujou’s 1922 poem {\i1}Red Shoes{\i0} and the real statue of her located in real Yokohama.
Comment: 1,0:15:26.98,0:15:36.62,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Parody of {\i1}Macross{\i0} line “Everyone, are you civilizing?!” and also \N”Are you loving?!” from one of rocker Kiyoshiro Imawano’s live concerts.
Comment: 1,0:18:25.57,0:18:29.58,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Another parody dialogue scene from {\i1}Doraemon.{\i0}
Comment: 1,0:19:02.72,0:19:06.45,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: Parody of memorable lines in Kiichirou Yamate’s Japanese novel {\i1}Samurai Momotarou{\i0}.
Comment: 1,0:19:18.38,0:19:22.08,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Note: This special move is a parody of {\i1}Ultra Seven{\i0}’s move “Eye Slugger”.
Comment: 1,0:00:00.00,0:00:00.00,TL note,,0000,0000,0000,,Hidden Note: ***SPOILER*** http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6427726/SPOILER.txt / http://privatepaste.com/8ce5198b82

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24 Responses

  1. Name says:

    Hi10P encode as large or larger than the 8 bit encode => YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG

    Hi10P compresses better than 8 bit (depending on the source material up to 50% better for anime), so you can give it less bitrate. In fact, you shouldn’t use bitrate based rate control at all. Use CRF instead. As far as I’m aware, x264 already accounts for bitrate differences when using CRF. (Seriously, no anime encoders do this anymore, and even the TV scene switched away from it.)

    • BF3000 says:

      Don’t really understand the guys thinking x264 10bit should always be less size than 8bit.
      I can use CRF but than you will get 500-700mb files.
      And yes, 10bit will be 10-20mb less size 🙂

      • Name says:

        You increase the CRF until you like the file size. Maybe it doesn’t matter for a special episode. Normally CRF can help keeping the quality the same over a series.

        10 bit usually does decrease file size at same perceived quality. If the anime has lots of gradients, you should be able to lower the bitrate a lot compared to 8 bit, without getting additional banding. (Well, maybe not this show.)

        • MMC says:

          >10 bit usually does decrease file size at same perceived quality.

          All right, I understand that part, and I can agree that this is true. But…

          >But for me now 10bit is just for better quality.

          What our encoder here means is that he is actually trying to achieve HIGHER perceived quality than the 8-bit encode. Therefore the bitrate ends up being the same as or even higher than the “worse” video, even though they’re still the same resolution. He believes that the source, with the introduction of a crapload of artificial grain at the prologue by the animators (that are extremely hard to compress), is bad enough to warrant a Hi10P release as well. Basically, if you want less detail, get the 8-bit; if you want more detail, get the 10-bit. If he had tried to encode the amount of quality you’re getting in the 10-bit encode in 8-bit mode, you’d probably have a much bigger file than the 10-bit file. Now, whether the difference is actually significant or important enough to warrant a separate release is why I have mentioned “let us know how you like it and if there are any problems” on the main post. (also, if any artifacts are found, then I’ll have a reason to blame our QCer for the 10-bit encode 😛 )

    • BF3000 says:

      But for me now 10bit is just for better quality.

  2. passant says:

    Hell, yes! I love you all!

  3. No says:

    Thanks. But why you hardsub karaoke? How am I supposed to take screenshots?

    • Webbmaster62 says:

      Umm, we always ALWAYS hardsub karaoke unless by some exception. If you want screenshots, redo your config in MPC. (if you use it) Then put it back the way it was afterwards. File>Options>Playback>Output> change it to WMR-7 windowed renderer, try that one. then put it back the way you had it after taking screenshot. It usually tells you at the bottom what way you can take images to get what you want. If that don’t work try haali renderer.

    • MMC says:

      We’ve always hardsubbed karaoke, very little exceptions. There are decent raws out there if you wish to screenshot the OP/ED.

  4. Volbla says:

    I love you.

  5. Liz says:

    Thanks for the release! And thanks for using Hi10P!

    … why is it so big, though? It definitely shouldn’t be bigger than the 8-bit release.

    The main advantage of Hi10P is the possibility it has to produce an outcome of similar or better quality than the 8-bit, while being smaller in size.
    Exact quote:

    10-bit H.264 (which is now [july 18] supported by x264 for encoding, as well as new versions of media players like VLC and mplayer) gives two benefits:

    1) Better compression in general (~10-15% overall) due to higher intermediate precision. See http://x264.nl/x264/10bit_02-ateme-why_does_10bit_save_bandwidth.pdf if you want a more detailed explanation.

    2) Near-complete elimination of banding artifacts due to the increased internal precision.

    Since people should stop doing pointlessly high bitrate rips once 10-bit is widely available*, we hopefully won’t be getting any high-bitrate 10-bit fansubs.

    *Like this will ever happen. Gotta love fansubbers who think everyone in the world cares about one little quality nitpick so much that they’re willing to download 1GB episodes because of it.

    Here, a little simple algorithm quoted from Dark Shikari:

    Here’s a simple algorithm for finding the CRF you want:

    1. Encode a test clip.
    2. Raise the CRF until it looks bad.
    3. Drop the CRF to the highest point before it started looking bad.
    4. Use this CRF for everything you encode.

    Different people have different preferences for what they think “looks bad” is, so it’s best just to find your own.

    Typically I’d recommend 18-22 for a “high quality” encode. Note that HD typically can get away with higher CRFs than SD, because when you watch SD, it’s typically upscaled to fit your whole monitor, which magnifies any encoding artifacts in the video. HD isn’t upscaled as much, so artifacts tend to be smaller and less visible.

    I SERIOUSLY appreciate you giving a try to Hi10P. You’re giving me a nicer quality (a difference noticeable by far in CRT) and you’re spreading the word and helping popularize Hi10P. But if your encode is bloated (don’t take it the wrong way, please), you’ll just give the schema a bad reputation.

    That said, again, thank you very much for releasing the special.

    • Liz says:

      ah, the two first quotes are from Dark Shikari as well.

    • MMC says:

      >What our encoder here means is that he is actually trying to achieve HIGHER perceived quality than the 8-bit encode. Therefore the bitrate ends up being the same as or even higher than the “worse” video, even though they’re still the same resolution. He believes that the source, with the introduction of a crapload of artificial grain at the prologue by the animators (that are extremely hard to compress), is bad enough to warrant a Hi10P release as well. Basically, if you want less detail, get the 8-bit; if you want more detail, get the 10-bit. If he had tried to encode the amount of quality you’re getting in the 10-bit encode in 8-bit mode, you’d probably have a much bigger file than the 10-bit file. Now, whether the difference is actually significant or important enough to warrant a separate release is why I have mentioned “let us know how you like it and if there are any problems” on the main post. (also, if any artifacts are found, then I’ll have a reason to blame our QCer for the 10-bit encode 😛 )

      Why MH rips in general are so bloated, and also why we don’t do 1080p on our BD rips even though the source warrants it, is because of that nasty grain-riddled prologue. We just don’t want to release 500-700MB files; don’t worry, we hate bloat too. If our encoder says that CRF will bring about those file sizes even in 10-bit mode, then there’s nothing we can really do about it, unless the H264 specifications improves its compression algorithms on grain-filled scenes. Sorry.

      To sum it up, pretty much all 720p MH encodes are actually bitrate starved because of that prologue. You need 500-700mb for them to look decent. Now think of that same quality, but using 10-bit, lowered down to 400mb, the size we have now. Much better, right? (At least it’s something like that. Even with this 10bit encode it’s still less quality than what we would have liked [because you mentioned, yes, optimal is supposed to be 10~15% less bitrate than 8-bit only] but at least it’s watchable now.)

      • Liz says:

        I see. So the 8bit has worse quality. I get it now.

        About the filesize growing because of the prologue… why not just use ordered chapters and a prologue-only file?

        • MMC says:

          That is actually a very good ideaplausible idea, and I agree that I would have suggested it to our encoder if we had just started out on this series. Unfortunately, the TV series are done, and we already have 2 volumes of the BDs (non-ordered) out already, with volume 3 already fully encoded. As such, putting out ordered chapters now would heavily break consistency with previously released episodes. I assume that most people who choose to download ordered chapters are also archiving the episodes themselves, not just download-watch-delete like casual viewers. Being an archiver myself, the idea of having ordered chapters for only certain episode ranges would be quite confusing (“Why are episodes 4-12 a hundred megabytes smaller than 1-3??”), especially on a series where our encoder purposely uses CBR instead of CRF in order to control what would otherwise be ridiculous 500-700mb filesizes for normal CRF values.

          • galibara says:

            @Liz: order chapters are a very bad idea. There’s no way to play these files properly outside of MS Windows. You still get to watch the videos, but you have to queue the OP, main video, and ED in your play list. Which kind of defeats the whole order chapters thingy.

          • BF3000 says:

            No matter how you look at it ordered chapters is a very bad idea.
            I brings tons or problems without any noticeable improvement.

            And btw credits is always different.
            Have some respect to the guys created this anime.

  6. Liz says:

    galibara, I’m a Linux user. I can play ordered chapters. I’ve been able to play them for years now.

    learn to mplayer2 (previously called uoti’s git branch).

    • avant-garden says:

      I tried mplayer2. It has a lot to be happy about. Being able to seek to other points than keyframes was really nice. But if you like to use video card acceleration, you’re going to be hurting. Very jerky video, especially on scrolling scenes, with vdpau. It might be a while before it’s the answer for a lot of linux users.

  7. Anon says:

    >2011
    >hardsubbed karaoke

  8. I have a question, is the XviD AVI 8-bit or 10-bit?

    • MMC says:

      Xvid has always, to my knowledge, been encoded to 8-bit only for consumer viewing. You can usually safely assume it’s h264 that people are talking 10-bit about.

    • B.F. says:

      There is no such thing as 10bit Xvid.
      And since Xvid releases always was for people who can’t watch HQ releases it always encoded with the same settings.

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